Navigating Promotions: Strategies for Visibility and Success in the Workplace

Episode Transcript

Julianna:
Hello, and welcome to the Daring to Succeed podcast. I’m your host, Julianna Yau Yorgan, and I’m joined today by a former guest that we had on the show, Tasleem Jessani, who is a good friend of mine and a fantastic coach and hypnotherapist. Welcome, Tas.

Tasleem: Thank you. Thanks for having me again. So excited.

Julianna: Me too. So what we have in store for you today is we’re noticing that a lot of our clients right now are working on Promotions where they are, they’ve kind of been in their roles for a while and ready for that next step. And we wanted to kind of talk about the different situations that are going on and what we’re seeing with people trying to get promotions right now, because it is a little tricky sometimes to kind of make that step, even though you’re kicking butt at your job right now, getting that promotion isn’t always a smooth sailing. And I know, Taz, when we talked before we started recording, what you sometimes see is people kind of not fully showing up and being fully visible at work. And maybe you could start us off by talking a little bit about that and what you do with your clients to help them move through that.

Tasleem: Yeah, for sure. And I do love this topic because it’s something that not only am I just seeing right now, but in general, it’s what I see most often people coming to me for is they’re looking for this promotion. And when I’m working with them, it’s the first thing is for me as a matter of understanding why they want the promotion, you know, what is the significance behind the role? What is it going to do for them or bring for them? because oftentimes I actually just end up like with them breaking down that they don’t know if they actually want the promotion per se, whereas they just want, as you kind of alluded to, is perhaps to be more visible or acknowledged for their contributions and what they’re doing. They just want to feel validated that they are an important piece of the puzzle for the organization. So, um, when I, When I experience people coming to me and saying I’m being overlooked or I keep applying for promotions and I am not getting them, it can be so many factors. It could be confidence. It could be that they’re not comfortable being like, we call it playing small. It’s not necessarily playing small. It’s not even just confidence. It’s like a not enough-ness that’s laying under the surface. The way for me to get to what is going on is first just to say, what is this going to bring for you? Like this promotion, you know, and even if it is, it’s more money or it’s the title or because a lot of people say it’s not about the money. It’s not about the title, you know, but the thing is that all those things bring something to the individual. They bring a feeling, they bring an experience. And that’s where I work with them is to get to the heart of what is it that they’re craving and looking for? Because likely that’s exactly where the block is that they can’t achieve that next level or that next step, because it’s possible even that promotion may not even give them what they’re looking for, or maybe they will get the promotion and then they will still not be happy. And if we don’t get to the root of the issue under underneath it, then we won’t be able to actually move them forward. because whatever they’re doing is not going to get them to what they actually desire or crave, right? So, um, so yeah, there’s lots of different ways that this can show up, but, um, we can, you know, I’m curious, Julianna, kind of what you see, like for people coming to you for the main reasons. Cause like I could say, yes, there’s confidence there’s, they just want to be visible and seen, or they have great aspirations for, their future careers and stuff, and they want to move really fast in a short time. I’m curious what you see most often or what you’re seeing recently, because then maybe I can just zero in on even what I see in relation to the same things you see in your area.

Julianna: Yeah, for sure. As you know, I’m more focused on the taking action part and the strategy part. So I do, of course, spend some time trying to understand like you, what is it that you’re trying to get out of this promotion so that we can get you that thing? And what I’m seeing a lot is that people are kind of ready for a bigger challenge in their career. or they’ve kind of gotten to a place where the work that they started doing two, three years ago isn’t challenging for them anymore, it’s kind of it’s gotten boring, it’s gotten stale, especially right now with the job market the way it is. Maybe they’re looking for something else, but they don’t want to switch companies or they’ve been kind of playing it safe for a while because of the pandemic and all the changes in the world that they’re finally ready for to take a little bit of risk and kind of grow a little bit more out of where they have been in the past few years. So it’s I think just that readiness for more is what I’m seeing a lot.

Tasleem: Yeah, definitely. And when they have that readiness for more, do you experience like for them a challenge when you’re trying to give them those tools? Like, is there a resistance that you see or like, does that show up when you’re working with them?

Julianna: Not really. I think the clients who get benefit from, let’s say, working with me versus working with you, they’re more kind of just trying to figure out how do they, like, how tactically do they do it? Or they’ve tried before to get a promotion, you know, maybe a year ago and were told, no, you’re not ready and don’t really have more information beyond that. But they’re seeing other people getting promoted. So they’re like, what’s missing? How do I, how do I find the thing that I need to do or to demonstrate so that they can be convinced that I’m ready? and it’s more about working with them to navigate their company, navigate the people involved in those decisions. First to figure out who is involved in those decisions, what’s important to them, and then how do I demonstrate in the right way for those specific people that I am ready, that I have what it takes to be considered for that promotion without kind of being this loud, obnoxious person, right? Getting visibility without being annoying so that they’re valuing you, not just being annoyed that you’re constantly saying, oh, here’s how fantastic I am. Because most of the people who are kind of struggling with that type of visibility aren’t naturally, I guess, pre-wired to be the loudest person in the room.

Tasleem: Yes. Yeah. Um, I love that. I love how you said that. And, and even the last podcast, you and I had such an interesting and great discussion around those people who like have, you know, introverted, I’ll use quotations, introverted qualities, because we don’t actually necessarily know where the introversion might come from, if it’s really natural, or if it’s some sort of trauma or something behind the scenes. But I love how you named that they’re not sort of what I’m hearing is they’re not sort of afraid to put the tools into practice. And I love that because that’s exactly what I see. Like when I was doing my coaching work and when I started to add in the hypnotherapy and the energy work is more often than not work when I’m working with the people, I feel the resistance. And so they’ll have every tool in the toolkit, but there’s a resistance to actually putting into practice and It’s not like they are consciously avoiding it. It’s happening on a subconscious level that they can’t see it. So I could talk them through any sort of conversation, but the resistance will kick in and it will turn into a situation where, and you named it too, like they’ll pour out too much energy into something when they don’t need to be. And it’s interesting because when a lot of the leaders I I receive who come to me, they are actually really amazing performers. They are perfect for promotion. I’ve even worked with people like even in an HR perspective where they are actually the key talent that we’re talking about like promoting. But why are they missing these chances? It’s interesting like something somewhere happens that the position goes to somebody else. They’re just not quite right for it or they get a opportunity that they don’t really want. And then they’re told by the organization, this will be the right next step for you. And the person’s like, no, no, that’s not what I want. And, um, I think that’s, what’s interesting is when we look at the work you do versus what I do, I, I like help people with that, whatever’s driving that energy behind the scenes, because if we’re holding on to a type of energy pattern, that is, you know, causing us to attract the same type of situations, you know, when you see the same type of bosses, like, I loved when you had, you know, podcasts talking about like, say, the narcissistic boss or whatever, right, or things like that, where we look at something happening in the person’s life, it’s probably happening more places than just work, you know, it’s showing up in their relationships in some way, or it’s just showing up in their personal life in some way. And oftentimes the people I work with, they’re either giving their power away in some way. They’re just doing too much. Like you can really sense and feel they’re just pushing out and it’s not even pushing out. They’re like, they’re like losing their energy trying to, Hey, like, what about me? Um, and getting caught in conversations where it’s not in their best interest. And. What I love about what you just named is you have the tools to help those people, but also if the energy behind the scenes is driving them that they’re unconsciously doing it, the tools won’t necessarily work till they release the energy behind, like underneath it, which is possibly like, and actually many cases I’ve worked with, there’s an underlying trauma, like they’ve had abuse in their childhood And it doesn’t have to be such a big T, like a lot of people say, I didn’t have any abuse in my childhood, but it’s interesting that they have had some level, some form of even if it’s a lower level abuse, I guess you’d call it, I don’t even know if we can call abuse lower level, but you know, like people actually downplay their abuse because they’ve been told throughout their life, it’s not a big deal, or they’ve learned to cope with it that despite this trauma, they have learned to be so they’re, they’re just like, they do such a great job, like everything, they’ve learned all the practices, everything to be super capable, and like high performance and high functioning. So then when they come to me, I’m like, that this trauma, you know, I can see where there’s this anxious need to maybe prove to maybe that was a parental figure, whoever it was that this trauma actually happened or that you actually impacted me with this, or like an extreme fear that will be like, I can’t speak my truth or else. And once we really work with that trauma, and then they come to a place where the outpouring, like that extreme, like pushing out of energy actually stops because they don’t feel like they need to lose all their power to prove their worth or their worthiness or even proof that something actually happened to them. If that makes sense, it’s like, you don’t have to sit there and prove to anybody that something bad happened to you. If they’re doing it on such a subconscious level, because, you know, they’ll experience injustice in the workplace. And then there’ll be an extreme effort to show but this is this bad thing is happening and you guys aren’t fixing it, but it’s coming from an underlying energy of being me being a child position where it’s like this bad thing happened to me. Nobody did anything to help me, you know? And I find it quite intriguing, interesting, also a little bit sad that like we’ve learned to just despite all of this still function and show up in the workplace. And then we’re told like you need to have a thicker skin or you need to like or why do you work so hard to do this X, Y, Z and not really understanding that, well, there’s something behind the scenes that’s happening here and it’s not that person’s fault. And we also, I feel like we’re opening up more conversation in the workplace of like mental health, but without really understanding that if you’re going to open up that conversation, we need to be well equipped with what mental health actually means and that we’re bringing in that whole person. We can’t just tell them, well, okay, this thing happened to you, but that’s like, you need to figure out how to deal with that. Cause like this visual tolerance for this. And again, I’m not saying every, every like a manager needs to know how to handle this. I’m just saying that like in a workplace, I think we need to have more resources or understanding at the very least that where can we help people have support so that they can get the resources to help them because There’s nothing wrong with them. They’re fully functioning human beings. They have a trauma, you know, and if we can support that, then they can work with, you know, somebody like you who can just effectively like, here’s what you need to do. And they put all those pieces in place. And it’s like, it’s so, you know, comes together so beautifully. Um, so yeah, just kind of curious, like what your, sort of experiencing while you’re hearing me talk and where you kind of see the intersection between the people you see and I see.

Julianna: Yeah, I find that so fascinating because every time we talk, like one thing that really resonates with me is how much every person needs something different and something different at a different point in their life, right? So the support that they need, the problem that they need solved or the thing they need unblocked is not always the same. And it’s not the same person who can help them, right? Like, obviously, most coaches kind of can do a little bit of everything. But whenever we speak, I really understand why your clients love working with you and why they need you so much because it is that underlying something that they need to figure out that they haven’t been able to find on their own, which can be really hard because you’re just kind of sitting there in your own head. right and you’ve got that magical way of drawing that out with people but also giving them that safe space to do that work but they have to be ready for it right they they have to be in that right time in their in their life in their mind in their heart to be receptive to that kind of coaching and going into the scary places even if it’s not a big big scary place it’s still there where With the people that come to me, they’ve kind of either moved past or have solved for whatever it was that was blocking them before already, or maybe they didn’t never had a blocker. They just didn’t have access to someone who could help them navigate all the complications of a workplace. Because a lot of them, when they come to me, they’ve already tried so many things. They’ve already tried doing it on their own. They’ve taken advice that hasn’t panned out. And they need that person who can see things in a different way. and has done it before herself, has done it before with other people who, like a lot of my clients are not exact copies of me, right? Like they’re not, I’m not working with people who are just like me. I’ve worked with extroverts, I’ve worked with people in different roles, different industries, but the fundamental thing is always the same, which is trying to almost decipher the workplace for them right to make it a little less mystical so that they can understand who is making decisions on their career who is driving what’s happening at work and why so that they can finally understand oh that’s why they told me I need to do that thing it’s not actually what they told me right maybe they said I need to Take more initiative, and that’s how I’ll get a promotion. Well, I worked with one client who realized that her boss didn’t need her to take initiative. She needed to help her boss do work. And that’s what her boss meant as taking initiative. Right? So it wasn’t proactively solving problems. It’s solving her boss’s problems. And once she started doing that, her boss is like, oh, she’s fantastic. She’s my best employee. But But until she could really understand and kind of read between these weird corporate lines. Yes. It was, it was so frustrating and so hard. And then that just kind of made everything easy.

Tasleem: Totally. I love your example so much because it reminds me of even when I was in corporate environment and I’m looking for a promotion and I felt like I was doing everything possible to get that promotion and. My boss was working remotely. And the interesting thing is we don’t realize these things until we have this kind of information, like you just talked about, which was first of all, being remote. It took me a while to really understand. They don’t see me day in, day out, rushing into this meeting or that meeting. I needed advocates on my side who are watching me to be able to talk to my boss and say, yeah, she’s like doing all this stuff. I needed those advocates. My boss also wasn’t in all the meetings I was in. I mean, I was in HR, so I was coaching leaders. And there were a lot of times where the leaders didn’t even realize that they could actually help me by going and talking to my boss about what I’ve been able to do. And as soon as they started to see and understand that, the leaders actually advocated on my behalf to go and speak to my boss. Hey, she’s doing an amazing job, or she would be the one I would pick. And the final piece that was really helpful for me is when I finally got so frustrated with the situation and I said, what more do you need? You know, and my boss said, well, when you come to me, you ask me, um, what can I do here? And I don’t hear what you want to do first. And I thought that was, for me, it was very backwards because I don’t go to somebody unless they need help to get across. Like, I’m not going to go through, this is my entire plan of what I did. And now I’m at this place. And what do you think? That’s not my style. because I only ask for help when I need it. But when I, it’s exactly what you just said right now. It’s like, it was the missing piece I needed. And as soon as I realized this is how I have to set up every conversation I have with my boss, that was it. And I, within like months, it was the promotion was there. And I also needed to understand I could push for a promotion all year, but there was one time a year. So I totally agree with you. It’s like, having somebody who understands the inner workings of the environment. And I felt like in an HR perspective, even when I’m working with my clients, I love that I have that HR perspective and background because, you know, I work with a lot of people, or I see a lot of people who have the hypnotherapy and the energy work and all the things, but they haven’t had that corporate experience. And even if they had, they haven’t worked in a position like HR, where you see the inner workings behind it. And, I’m able to also tell them, you know, you, you’re, you’re pushing at something you’re not going to get because that just not how the politics in the environment work. And if you put your energy at the right time and then you wait, it will come through. And I hear that same for you, which is. You’re this, you’re a leader who understands the inner workings of the environment. Also like how valuable it is to know what it’s like to go from an individual contributor to a manager, or to go from a manager to a director, And those level shifts, so valuable, because like, you’ve gone through all the like, I have to change how I show up, or I have to change people’s perspective of me. And they knew me as their friend. And now, before I was their colleague, now I’m their manager. Those shifts are also so real, right? Or even like, not managing just your own calendar to managing a calendar, like maybe you’re leading eight people. It’s just so I can see it where your work is so valuable for people, because it’s not just about, okay, I got the promotion, but it’s like the transition and the showing, because in organizations, it’s so important, you can demonstrate I understand what that next level jump is. And that’s what makes it actually makes sense what you just shared, because if the person can help the boss, it demonstrates you can do that next level job too. And sometimes where I know in my work, where I get, I work with people is they’re doing too much of that. They’re helping their boss too much. They’re helping their colleagues too much. They’re doing everything under the sun. And now it’s just, they’ve literally given their power away and everyone’s taking advantage of Oh yeah, so-and-so will show up and do this, no problem, but, and won’t need a promotion or more money. And so those are the people that end up coming to me being like, I’ve doing everything. And it’s just, and then I’m like, well, cause you’re doing too much. So counterintuitive, right? In some cases it is, you just need those extra tools. And then the other places what’s causing you to do way too much to prove your worth right now. and let’s pull that back because energetically you’re just showing them you’ll do anything and they can walk all over you almost and that’s coming from some pattern that’s not your fault it’s just it’s been developed and we need to release that so you come back into your power you look the way I it’s hard to describe to people but they know when they they are there is like they just sit in their center they just like feel balanced and centered, like not being pulled in different directions. And then they can come from a place from there of, okay, I’m going to put my pieces, my ducks in a row with working with you, or for example, to be like, okay, now I got it. Like strategically moving these pieces around without like this feeling like this energetic outpouring of like, I’ll do anything you say, like, just give me that promotion. If that makes sense.

Julianna: It does. And like, I do that as well with my clients, but a little less focus on like, well, sort of the power piece, but really being very strategic and intentional about the things they are doing to make sure they’re things that will actually help them achieve their goals, right? Like if it’s getting a promotion, some people will just do everything and they’re exhausted. And the way I help them is, OK, let’s clear the clutter and really look at what you’re doing to see, is it actually going to track back to something that gives you value and gives you the right visibility to get that promotion? Because some people, they’ll volunteer for all of the things, or they’ll join all sorts of committees, and they’ll work late. But if those aren’t the things that are valued for the promotion, They’re just doing too much. So it ends up, they end up doing all these things and being resentful because, oh, but I’m working late and I’m working more than everyone else. I’m fixing all the problems and all these things, and it’s still not happening. Well, are those promotable tasks? Are they things that the decision makers will look at and say, oh, they put in so many extra hours, so they deserve to be promoted because they’re dedicated. Those aren’t the conversations that are happening at the leadership table, right? And like similar to you with my leadership experience in corporate, I know what those conversations sound like and what they’re considering. And even though the companies are different, the way those conversations happen are usually the same. And trying to figure out what is being said about you without being in the room is a very delicate art, right? So it’s fun for me when I work with my clients on that because we have to find those really creative ways to get the information without overstepping boundaries that leaders will put in place. because there’s only so much that each leader feels they can share. Some feel like they can share more. Others feel like they’re not allowed to share anything. So it’s a matter of navigating with them sort of, okay, who do you have access to? What are your relationships like? What can they share? And then what can we kind of figure out from what they’re saying, test that out, see if we’re right. And if it is right, then we can take the right action. Because if the assumption is wrong, all the things you’re doing are probably not the things that you need to be doing to get that promotion.

Tasleem: Totally. Oh, I love that so much. Like just how you helped to show that it is really about how like who are you dealing with? How can you get the information? Absolutely right. It’s a real delicate art. and also recognizing who’s going to give you the most effective information, who’s going to, who kind of gets caught up, maybe a little more gossipy, right. And who also might get caught up in their own, like what their part is in it. Like, you know, working with leaders, for example, who they tend to say, I did everything I could to, to That to like promote that to promote you or to sell your promotion, but I was overruled. It can also be a tricky place. Like you could get caught in a trap of someone else’s stuff. And it may not accurately even describe how people are seeing you or who’s advocating for you. And I think it like goes back to how, when, when, when I gave my example of, I needed to find people who would advocate for me to my boss. Who see my work and I love that because you can sit with somebody and actually help them see Their circle their network and be like you don’t have to just rely on these people who seem so obvious There’s all these other people who see what you’re doing and maybe they don’t even know that they could really advocate for you There’s a people who love you who want you to succeed and if you just go to them and talk to them and that’s where I think see again on an energetic level like if first of all if you’re already overwhelmed with what you’re doing right now it’s the the thing is if you’re working odd hours and trying to prove yourself unfortunately the promotion is just going to make it worse and you’ll just keep repeating the same patterns again so that’s where i can really see it’s really cool the intersection between what you and i do because Like if you’re working with somebody and you’ve helped them get promotion, now they’re back in the same place where they’re overworking and overdoing, you know there’s an energetic pattern going on there. You’d probably be like, you need to talk to Taz, right? And if I’m like, I’m sitting there like, you have, you have done all the energetic work, like you are, like I can see them like doing the energetic work, but without me even telling them, I would be like, you need to talk to Julianna because she needs to help you put your pieces ducks in a row. and help you navigate like who you should talk to too. That’s what I love about like how you and I even work together, even our conversations, because yeah, if you don’t know, like, and it’s so funny how we can get so caught up in the world that’s just around us. Like, Oh, here’s my team and this is how they are. And we forget those people who are just in that next level and that like next level of people who are like, Oh, that person’s an advocate. Like, they can really help you. Or maybe you don’t start to network with people who are difficult, like having coffees and stuff. I know so many people will be like, I don’t want to have all these coffees with all these people and stuff. But that again, comes back to why, what’s happening underneath it. And if that comes to an energetic place, and we work to release what’s keeping you you know, like it’s probably they’re exerting too much energy in those coffees. You know, they’re probably not using the right, like conversation tools either, maybe in that comes to talking with you, or it could just be like, you’re not talking to the right people, you know? So yeah, that’s where it’s like, so cool to see the difference, but also the similarities between our work and where people can get stuck in like a, Oh, I don’t want to do any more of this, but it’s like, That’s probably because you’re exhausted doing so much already. That’s something with leaders when they come to me, they often get stuck right there, especially because they’re women. They might be moms or they might be women who carry so much expectation from childhood or from their families that you have to carry a lot of burdens and different things that they actually are like, if I have to go for this promotion, Do I seriously have to do more? Because I’m exhausted already. And that’s and then they get stuck right there. So part of them is trying to reach for that promotion and part of them is like, yeah. And then we energetically hold back ourselves. We actually energetically block the promotion. And that’s something people don’t see is it’s not your fault. It’s just your higher self is protecting you from getting completely railroaded onto the next level. because you’re already giving too much right now. So I really love uncovering that kind of stuff with the people I work with. I could talk about that forever, as you can tell, but yeah, just, you know, if you’re already doing too much right now and you’re exhausted, like for people listening, I really encourage you to step back for a moment and think, what do you feel when you think about getting a promotion that feels like you’re taking on even more? Like, that already will give you so much insight. If you start to feel your chest getting tight or your shoulder, yeah, that means you’re already overburdened. And perhaps you need to have a conversation with somebody to be like, I don’t think I’m putting my resources in the right place right now. And because it shouldn’t feel that way if you’re going to go for a promotion.

Julianna: Yeah, it should feel good. It should feel like you’ve, you’ve gotten the thing that you want. Coming back to what you were saying before. Yeah. Yeah. So, oh, we could talk forever. I know we could just keep going, but that feels like a natural place for us to kind of wrap up. Um, so if you do want to hear more from us about promotions and the different work that we do, um, Taz, I know you’ve got a website and your socials, your LinkedIn and Instagram that I’ll link to in the show notes. And I believe you have a really cool meditation out there too.

Tasleem: Yes. Yeah. So for like all of you out there, like, you know corporate world and it’s stressful right all the things that we do it’s stressful and what we do really well is we just cope with the stress and we keep going back every day and we don’t really know what’s going on within our bodies within understanding like what we’re feeling and I have a great meditation that’s just a really beautiful stepping stone for you to at least give yourself some time and space to just hear what your body is trying to tell you. It’s gentle. Everyone who uses it says they feel so calm after it helps them sleep. So if you have trouble sleeping, if you have anxiety, if you notice you’re just carrying your work home with you and it’s hard to turn off, I really encourage you, there’s no risk. It’s a beautiful meditation. You can just use it when you come home from work even or in the mornings just to allow yourself to connect with your body and I guarantee you the calm you’ll feel. And if you practice it daily, you’ll just start to understand what your body’s trying to tell you. And you will actually naturally start to come away from like bringing all this stuff home with you, all this baggage that you’re bringing with you. It’s probably making it hard for you to settle down at night or in the evenings. So yeah, I think if you are able to link that for people as well, please, download it and reach out to me as well if you have some insight or things coming up. We’ll always love to hear from people.

Julianna: Awesome. Yeah, I’ll make sure that’s in the show notes. And for those of you who are more looking for strategy, I have a free newsletter that I offer with strategies for professionals and leaders in the workplace. And if you sign up, you get my free video on taking small actions towards big goals, which people are really loving right now because we just don’t have enough time. So we kind of break things into smaller pieces and still get a lot of results back. So check out the show notes. We’ve got all of our links in there. And thanks so much for listening, everyone. Bye. All right. We’ll see you next time. Bye.